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| |  Online Event for Azerbaijani, Georgian and Armenian FLEX students with Jon Elkind October 30, 2002 Katy Pearce: Hello everyone. This online event will begin soon... Katy Pearce: Students, if you want to ask Mr. Elkind a question, click on the "Ask Question" button. Please ask one question and wait at least 3 minutes before asking another... Katy Pearce: Katy Pearce, the moderator, will read your question and give it to Mr. Elkind. While Mr. Elkind is typing, please write more questions. Students were asked to prepare 5 questions ahead of time, however, students please feel free to ask questions that are different from the ones which you have prepared... Katy Pearce: When the chat is finished, you must complete the evaluation form. The link to the evaluation form is above this chat window... Katy Pearce: And now, to present Mr. Jon Elkind. Mr. Elkind is the former Director for Russian, Ukrainian, and Eurasian Affairs at the National Security Council and Vice President Gore's advisor for the former Soviet Union... Katy Pearce: Mr. Elkind is no longer a representative for the United States Government, however his years of experience provide all of us a unique opportunity to learn more about the U.S.'s relationship with this interesting region... Katy Pearce: He is now a private citizen whose views are his own. He is currently an independent consultant on energy and environment projects in the post-Soviet states and Central and Eastern Europe; as well as an independent consultant on trade and investment issues and regional security affairs in the former Soviet bloc... Katy Pearce: Fortunate for all of us, he is willing to speak to Future Leaders Exchange students from the Caucasus... Katy Pearce: Again, welcome all students and adults, on behalf the U.S. Departments of State and Education and especially the State Department's Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs, we appreciate your enthusiasm for this event for International Education Week. Thanks for joining us. Students, you may begin asking questions. Nino Abralava asks: Hello. I'd like to ask Mr.Elkind if he ever has been to Georgia or not and would he want to? Jon Elkind: Nino, I have traveled through all three of the Caucasus countries. And yes, I would like to do so again as soon as possible! Ayaz Ahmadov asks: HI question fro mAzerbaijan ) What do you think about FLEX program? Jon Elkind: To be frank, I have only known about the FLEX program indirectly in the past. But one of the things that I think is most important is for students to learn about other parts of the world. And I do not only mean you learning about the US. I would imagine that your American friends are learning as much or more about your countries because you are in their towns. Katy Pearce: Mr. Elkind, many students from Azerbaijan have asked about your opinion about the future relationship between the U.S. and Azerbaijan. Jon Elkind: Katy, I think that the US has important relationships with each of the three Caucasus countries, and must build these relationships in the years ahead. In the specific case of Azerbaijan, there are a lot of different elements of that relationship. One of the elements is, of course, energy. But contrary to what some people think, that's not the only important piece of the puzzle. Jon Elkind: A word or two more... Also important are cooperation on anti-terrorism issues, cooperation on the development of Azerbaijan's NON-energy economy, support for Azerbaijan's political development. Katy Pearce: And Mr. Elkind, the same question for Armenia and Georgia? Jon Elkind: Well, as I said at the outset, each one of these relationships is important and each is very different. Each relationship reflects the things that the United States has in common with the country in question. The relationships also reflect what's happening today in the given country. I will get at this question more as we move through the chat. Verzhine Kasarjyan asks: Hi . I am Verzhine from Armenia. Do you think that the relaitionships between these 3countries has their affect on the relaitionships with the US? Jon Elkind: Verzhine, yes, I think that the US cares a lot about how the three countries relate to each other. The three countries are small, and your part of the world is one where conflicts have been an all-too-prominent part of the past. The US Government has in the past and does still today spend a whole lot of time trying to foster peace in the region and also other forms of cooperation -- in education, and the arts, and environmental protection, and trade just to name a few topics. Katy Pearce: Nearly every student has asked, Mr. Elkind, about the possible war in Iraq and how the Caucasus countries may be affected by it. Jon Elkind: Let me start by saying that I hope there will be no war in Iraq. If there is a war, then a lot depends on how that war is conducted. If it happens after a careful use of international systems (chiefly the UN) and with the broad support of the international community then I doubt that there will be much impact on your countries. But there is also another risk and that is that some might view a unilateral action by the US as a justification for other countries to take unilateral actions outside their borders. We live in a world of institutions... They don't always work perfectly (including the UN). But they are a lot better as a source of hope than unilateral actions. Ashraf Hajiyev asks: Where are you from Jon Elkind: I was born in Washington DC. In this regard, I am a rarity. Very few people who live in theWashington area actually were born here. But my dad was a cancer researcher at our National Institutes of Health when I was first born. Katy Pearce: Mr. Elkind, there are a few popular questions being asked by the students right now. One area of questions is about the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, another is about Chechnya, and another is about the events in Moscow over the past week. Could you please discussion one or all of these? Jon Elkind: Okay, I am ready!! I will start with the events in Moscow last week. They were a terrible tragedy. They coincided with the awful events here in my area -- the snipers who were randomly targeting people of all ages, races, and backgrounds here in DC. mention the latter only to stress that we are living in a time filled with sorrow and sadness, and I hope that you all will -- as you go into your adult years -- reject that. We have the power -- each of us -- to change the world we live in, and that's why we are here on this earth. Now, turning more specifically to Chechnya. I don't think I can offer any deep insight, but I will say this... Jon Elkind: The fate of Chechnya -- like the fate of the Middle East, like the fate of Northern Ireland... yes, like the fate of Nagorno-Karabakh can only be determined through negotiations and mutually-acceptable settlements. How long this will take with Chechnya, I cannot tell. I would only say that the horror of last week's hostage-taking means that peace will take even longer. There is no excuse -- ever -- for taking innocent hostages and treating them like combatants. On Nagorno-Karabakh, I am more optimistic, frankly, than I am about Chechnya. Here Presidents Kocharian and Aliyev have a true opportunity to find a resolution for the situation. It will be hard politically for each man. But the alternatives (continued cold pace or a return to hostilities) are MUCH worse for both Azerbaijan and Armenia... Jon Elkind: No one wins from either of those answers. Now forgive me if what I just said is a very American answer. I do not pretend to know the pain and depth of historical tensions of your region. But I do see the impact of the unsettled conflict on your countries. Katy Pearce: Dear students, there are so many questions, we are trying to answer as many as possible... Katy Pearce: Mr. Elkind, we will soon return to direct student questions, but many of the students are interested in hearing about your thoughts on the relationship between Russia and the Caucasus, especially Georgia. Jon Elkind: Katy, I will start with the Russia-Georgia relationship, which is the most complicated part of the picture. Sadly, I think that some people in Russia have a special dislike for Eduard Shevardnadze because he and Mikhail Gorbachev allowed the end of the Soviet bloc and the USSR itself. This means that some in Russia have felt justified in doing unacceptable things -- bombing Georgian territory, for example, also exaggerating the nature of the threat to Russia from Chechens whom Russia felt were present on G territory. But geography is permanent and this means that Georgia and Russia need to find a way to co-exist. As with all the post-Soviet ties, G has deep ties to R and vice versa. So I am hopeful that relations can normalize. For this to happen, Georgia must strengthen itself. And this chiefly means attacking corruption, another topic we should "talk" about in more detail as we continue the chat. Irina Acabidze asks: Mr. Elkind why do you think it was important for United Stated to give us a chance to experiance this exiting year? Jon Elkind: In the 1960s, the US created a program called the Fulbright program and what we discovered was that -- in a very self-interested way -- this program was a HUGE positive contribution to how we understood the world, and how the world understood us. You will leave this country with a deep understanding of many things that American life consists of. You will have seen us in all of our shortcomings and in all of our strengths. Your insights will be unfiltered. And this means that you will return to your countries with an extremely deep understanding of how to work with the United States. This is the point. You will have insights about us. And there's one more thing... You will have taught people in Kansas and Nevada and California and Pennsylvania about your countries, and sadly, we as a nation know so little about our world. Tamar Tako Sturua asks: Mr. Elkind what is the basis of a strong stable government? Jon Elkind: Wow, that's a big question. Let me list off a few elements ... 1) consent of the governed (we give the government powers because it provides for our needs)... 2) a belief in the basic fairness of the government... 3) a belief that "we the people" can change the policies or the rulers if they act in ways that are unfair... I guess I will stop there (though there is m. I will only add ore I could add) It takes time to create such a government. Your countries only have ten-plus years of independence. Your generation will be critical to creating strong, effective, and fair governments in your homelands. Mariam Margaryan asks: Mr. Elkind why it is so hard for presidents to follow to this elements and don't cheat? Jon Elkind: I will answer your question and then loop back to the economics question... People in power tend to like being in power. People in power frequently don't understand that "consent of the governed" is such a powerful force. One thing that makes it powerful is that, if you have the support of the population, then the government does not have to do all the work. Instead, people will protect or advocate a policy themselves. Arsen Asvarov asks: It's well known that our countries has a lot of economic problems. How do you think we should solve them? What is the best way? Jon Elkind: Arsen, that is a big question, but I will start with this. Think small. Yes, small. If you are a business man or business woman, you probably want a chance to make an HONEST living. That means not having to face demands for bribes from police, fire inspectors, tax inspectors, customs officials. And most business people want simply to have an honest chance to make an honest living and provide for their families. Thus, for each of the three Caucasus countries, the biggest thing is to atack corruption. And it literally applies to each country of the three. The leadership of the three countries are great at talking about corruption but so little actually happens to change the reality and so people lose hope. That is a tragedy. Sahil Huseynov asks: why did the USA have cold war with USSR? Jon Elkind: Because the US felt that the policies of the USSR were illegitimate (including that they involved the forcible inclusion of countries that wanted to be free) and that the idea of Soviet socialism was unable to provide for freedom and fairness in citizens' lives. Irina Acabidze asks: Mr. Elkind do you think we will be able in future to free ourselves form ost soviet ties? Jon Elkind: Irina, having said what I just said, I think it is important for me to note that there were also GOOD things that came from Soviet times. There was universal education and literacy (more than my country can claim, sadly). Health care was generally poor, but it was universally available. So I am not trying to paint an artificial, over-simplified picture. Now, as to freeing yourselves. That's entirely a question of what the current leadership generation and -- more important -- your generation are willing to do. Having spent a reasonable amount of time talking to young people from your three countries, I am basically optimistic. But "freedom" will not only be measured in terms of getting rid of the bad elements of a Soviet past. It will also be a matter of creating a new, just, sustainable future. Lilit Sargsyan asks: do you think there's democracy in our countries Jon Elkind: Lilit, in answering one of the questions earlier, I think I said that new governmental systems take time. And in this regard, I would say that each of the three countries has made significant progress, but that democracy cannot be declared to have been "achieved". Remember that democracy is not a permanent state of being. You have to fight to protect democracy every day. A lot of people in this country felt that they did not have a fair chance to participate in the last presidential elections. I cannot judge that question with certainty myself, but I note it to note that we still in this country, with a democratic tradition that is older than 200 years, are still fighting to protect democracy all the time. Katy Pearce: Mr. Elkind, there are a number of question themes that students are asking about. A few of them are Abkhazia, oil, Islam, Turkey. Would you care to choose one or more of these? Jon Elkind: I will try to take them each pretty quickly... Abkhazia Sadly, some parties seem uninterested in achieving peace there. This simply proves that with peace, as with so many other things in life, it is easier to OBstruct than to CONstruct. In other words, it is harder to make peace than to block it. The US has been active in the UN Secretary General's Friends Group, but I think basically that peace will not come until/unless Russia places pressure on the Abkhaz leaders to make peace. What was the next question, oil? Katy Pearce: Yes, oil. Jon Elkind: Oil and gas development can be a positive element for Azerbaijan in particular, but it requires real care. Azerbaijani society must recognize that many other countries that have had energy wealth have had bad societal outcomes. Countries like Indonesia and Nigeria have had loads of oil wealth, but their people are still terribly poor. Norway and Alaska have had better results, but this is chiefly because people made clear that they wanted to know where the money (the government income) was going and what it was being spent on. So I am definitely a supporter of what the Azerbaijani leadership has done to develop the country's energy resources, but I caution that the hard work is ahead -- making sure that the income is used wisely to provide for the future, after the oil is gone. What next? Katy Pearce: And, Turkey was the next theme. Jon Elkind: Obviously Turkey has an important set of relationships in the Caucasus region. For Azerbaijan and Georgia, it has been a friend and ally. For the United States, by the way, it is a NATO ally, which means that we are obligated to protect them in times of attack on them, and they are obligated to protect us as well. But Turkey and Armenia have had a very difficult and troubled relationship. And that is an area where one hopes that better things lie ahead. When I was in the US government, we spent a lot of time and effort trying to get a normalization of relations between the two countries. And the current Administration has continued this effort. But the real breakthrough has not yet come -- a re-establishment of normal relations. That is what I hope lies ahead, because both countries badly need it. Katy Pearce: Speaking of NATO, many students have asked as to your opinion on what joining or not joining NATO can do for the countries of the Caucasus. Jon Elkind: Katy, for starters, each of the countries has to figure out how to make itself more secure (without negative effects on neighbors) so in a way it is not for me to tell the countries what to think about NATO. That said, joining NATO is a pretty tough task, so I personally would urge the three countries to think about whether that best enhances their security. NATO has a program called the Partnership for Peace that promotes cooperation between NATO and PfP participants. Along the way, the participating countries get lots of training on how to make their militaries more effect at defending the national interest and this may be a better way to go for the near term. George Vashakidze asks: George Mr.Elkind why it is called exchange program but none of the Americans go to any countries of coucasus by this program? Jon Elkind: George, I cannot answer about the FLEX program in particular. But there are other programs where American students DO go to the "other" countries. I myself participated in such a program, under the Council on International Edication Exchange. I spent the summer of 1985, and then the entire fall semester of 1986 in St.Petersburg (then Leningrad). Khalid Gozalov asks: How come the media(TV, newspapers) of the U.S.A. does not show all of the things happening in our region? Why they do not show the truth and the real things happening in that area of the world(in the whole Caucasus)? Jon Elkind: Khalid, in general, one of the things that I am very critical about in American life is that we do not pay nearly enough time and attention to the rest of the world. It is something that affects news coverage, educational institutions, business and industry, and political life. Watch the political campaigns that will end in a week's time. See how little attention is paid to foreign affairs. To me it is horrifying. But it is understandable in a particular sense. Americans are fortunate to live in a continent-sized country. That is at the peak of its influence and capability (that is, historians will look back and see this as the period from which US influence declined)... Jon Elkind: The problem here ius the following in our globalized world, people like you students, who know what other parts of the world look like and work like, will be much more effective contributors to our world than those who cannot even pronounce the names of foreign countries and leaders. Remember what I said earlier about you all seeing America in all its strengths and weaknesses? This is an example of what I meant!! Katy Pearce: Students, we have less than 10 minutes left. Emma Mikayelyan asks: What university you graduated from ? Jon Elkind: I graduated from the University of Michigan with a degree in history. I then received a Master's degree (also in history) from Columbia University in New York City and last year I started a Master of Business Administration program at the University of Maryland. Keti Chemia asks: Some how in our countries we are involved in politics! How come American kids don't know anything about politics and publish relations?Is this good or not? Do you think American teens should be more involved in what is presently happening? Jon Elkind: Keti -- no question about it, it is TERRIBLE that American kids are so inactive in politics. That activism is 90% of the business of making sure that our democracy stays alive!! Souren Vardanyants asks: What opportunities do you think this FLEX program will give our countries and The U.S.? Jon Elkind: The biggest opportunity is for you and your American peers to know each other better. You represent bridges between our countries. And I only hope that some of our American students will go visit you when you return home. Nino Gamkharashvili asks: Could improving relations wit the US serve to help imporve relations between these 3 coutries? Jon Elkind: In the end, relations among the three countries have to be created by the three countries. That said, the US Government sponsors a lot of programs so that you have an opportunity to work together. And in this sense, relations with the US could help relations in the Caucasus. That is my hope, anyway! Katy Pearce: Do we have time for 1 more question? Jon Elkind: Oh sure! Anar Narimanov asks: Does history can affect relationship between this three countries? Jon Elkind: I understand your question as follows (please correct me if I have you wrong) "Can history affect the relationship between the three countries?". There is no question. History is our inheritance. Sometimes it is a gift from the gods. Sometimes it is a bitter pill. So we NEVER escape history. It is the obligatory starting place. But the question that we can affect is whether it is the ending place. As citizens of this world, we have the opportunity and the obligation to try to make sure that history is not our prison. We should respect our forefathers and foremothers and we should honor their memories. But we should not let history be an excuse for our countries (any of them most notably I also mean the US) not to live up to our full potential for peace, prosperity, cultural life, and happiness. Katy Pearce: Thank you Mr. Elkind and students. We appreciate your time. We have run out of time. We hope that you enjoyed this online event and that you have learned something new about the relationship between the United States and the nations of the Caucasus, as well as diplomacy and international relations. Please fill out the evaluation form in order for us to continue hosting events such as this in the best way possible. Thank you so much. Katy Pearce: Students, please click on the leave button and fill out the evaluation form. Thank you. | | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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